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 SCCA TMS weekend
 
 5/5/2009 11:30:00 AM
Mark
94 posts
1st


SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

So, any highlights?  I was a total backmarker this weekend - couldn't even see anyone else finish....  Figured I would go with Rain tires for Saturday's race, but unfortunately the skies did not open up.  Sunday, I had the rains on, switched back, then drove through the deluge that opened up just before our race.  Got stuck in the pack through the first three turns and never got a chance to make up any ground.  I'll be ready for Hallett - hope to see Ted back in action by then....

 5/6/2009 4:33:47 PM
mbuskuhl
251 posts
1st


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

Awfully quiet considering all that happened. Rob Lay has posted on SOWDIV, should be interesting.

 5/6/2009 5:09:23 PM
Travis
290 posts
1st


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

I'll post since I won Saturday!

Saturday I Qual behind Donato and Lance.. Got a good jump on start and Donato and I were bumper to bumper.  I guess 2nd lap (could have been first) don't remember was behind a red neon that was just about to climb over the left fender and hood of an IT RX7. Managed to miss that, then next lap around we have yellow and see Ted G's car mashed up at corner workers station. Fortunately Ted was ok.  After lengthy double yellow managed to pass Donato going out of infield for win!!

Sunday I Qual 2nd behind Tony.  Rain is looming all day.. Rains early, but then stops most of day. We decide to go out on dry's. Sure enough, by green flag, rain started pouring. Donato got a great start and went high and I got bunched up behind a bunch of cars tip toeing through turn 1.  No way I could catch them.. I ended up backing way off as window fogged completely and spray was so bad I couldn't see anything. ended up 4th. glad to make it through without incident.  Unfortunately Lance spun and a car clipped him and bent up his front end.  Fortunately, Lance and Ted have both found cars and hopefully will be ready for Hallett.

On a side note.  Yes there was some unfortunate events that happened in Saturday's race.  Evidently the driver of the red neon, not only ran over the front of the IT car, he swipped the side of a 4th Gen RX7, then after getting passed by Ted on the straight going to the oval, he came over on Ted and clipped Ted's rear sending him into the wall and totalling his car.  There is video out there to confirm this.  After the race, this driver did not come over to any of the three drivers he was involved in to apologize. So when the three of them went to discuss with him, he evidently told them to "F" off!  So upon Ted discussing with officials, they told him they have known this driver for 20yrs and he has a clean record. So basically told Ted they wouldn't do anything about it.! WOW..

Had this been a NASA event. NASA would have had immediately brought in a panel of non-biased drivers, reviewed any video and taken appropriate action, such as suspending the driver for a period of time or indefinately.  I have been at a race where this occured.   

 5/6/2009 5:56:06 PM
mbuskuhl
251 posts
1st


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

None of you raced on Sunday.

Speaking of replacement cars, I found a FREE 1st gen roller - All you have to do is go to Amarillo to get it. Email me for pics.

 5/7/2009 12:00:35 AM
Travis
290 posts
1st


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

ok. I ment Friday and Saturday.

 5/7/2009 5:23:51 PM
Chris Taylor
137 posts
1st


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)
Let's not turn this into a NASA vs. SCCA discussion, because quite frankly both sides are going to lose. In 8 years of NASA events I've heard of quite a few mis-handled situations, and in 20+ years of being around SCCA I can tell you there are more than just a handful. Nobody's perfect, and both organizations have the processes lined out IN THE RULEBOOK(s).

First of all, why don't ya'll take a minute to review the GCR, specifically about on-track incidents and the protest process. You have 30 minutes from the end of the session to file, and there's a way to go around that if you go to the right person. The Chief Steward is the king of the hill, any issues you have with the event you need to talk to him first, if he's available, and find out what needs to be done. Even though the race is over, if there is video of the incident as Rob alluded to its in your best interest to contact Jack Marr and find out if the protest period can be extended and if he's not helpful, contact Terry Ozment at headquarters and find out what needs to be done. Do the best you can to find out WHO you talked to and WHO EXACTLY said "Ed has been a racer for 20 years and has a clean record" because that will need to factor into the process. Saying, "The guy with the blue hat" does jack shit for your argument.

I'll also go on record and say that the Dallas area is quite well known for its Good Old Boy Network in full force, so don't let that stop ya'll from enjoying Memorial Day at TWS with Lone Star Region!

Also I've got a really nice 84 tub all stripped down and ready for cage/paint and reassembly. Heck, I even have a cage! Buy it from me so I don't spend the time turning it into a Spec7 when I have 2 that need work!
 5/8/2009 9:56:22 AM
chainlink
49 posts
2nd


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

Well, I had a decent weekend (actually it was outstanding compared to Ted's).  I decided to start tinkering with my carb and my car ran terribly the whole weekend.  Friday I managed to drive through all the mayhem and carnage on lap one and finish 5th.  Saturday I benefitted from Travis' vision problems in the rain and finished 3rd.  Overall I liked the track and had a good time.

So, as far as the reckless driving issue goes:  I agree that every racer should take some responsibility, understand and follow each of the sanctioning bodies rules and procedures.  I also think that the sanctioning body should take some responsibility for racers who are acting in an unsafe and unsportsmanlike manner at their event and be a bit proactive about their approach.   They have a vested interest in doing so.  I think they should also make an effort to help a racer navigate successfully through their processes rather than make it difficult and create obstructions.

My experience is this: 

Ed Peters-  I witnessed him driving erratically and unpredictably at ECR as well as at TMS.  I personally felt the need to distance myself as soon as I saw the way he was driving and was pretty frustrated by the lack of respect for faster cars that were not in his class. 

SCCA vs NASA- I agree that neither is perfect and both have shortcomings and strengths, I think SCCA should have taken a more proactive approach given the severity of the damage inflicted by one person on 3 separate occasions.  Considering how serious the SCCA tech inspectors are about equipment safety (which I would consider a strong point), I would have expected more concern from the organization about drivers safety

 5/8/2009 6:03:09 PM
Jack Marr
3 posts


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

 chainlink wrote

.....I think SCCA should have taken a more proactive approach given the severity of the damage inflicted by one person on 3 separate occasions.  Considering how serious the SCCA tech inspectors are about equipment safety (which I would consider a strong point), I would have expected more concern from the organization about drivers safety

Saturday evening I spoke with all the drivers involved including Ed Peters. All of them said it was someone elses fault; "He hit me", "I got chopped", etc. I was told there was video and I asked for it but it was never made available. Seeing as all we had was a finger pointing contest there was no way to determine who was at fault in any of the incidents, so I did not persue the issue. Had there been evidence EITHER WAY I would have refered it to the SOM.

If evidence comes to me now demonstrating poor driving I will send it to Tom Brown for him to consider a drivers review.

 

 5/8/2009 8:15:53 PM
tony
29 posts
4th


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

Jack,  

I would suspect that In casual conversations elusive comments as to who did  what are the norm.

Given the number of incidences involving the same car and as much car damage   as happenned an investigation may have been warranted.( do you think? )

Officials are empowered to undertake ( ie you as a steward ) investigations which require statements and evidence be presented and a descion as to who where or what was at fault.,

Simply stating that when evidence is presented .................I will do something..................ensures that nothing will be done  ( sorry but thats why we have officials)

I beilieve there was a breakdown in communication between race officials when stating the 30 minute time limit .............there were other ways to proceed

This is Teds first year ( maybe second) of racing not doing what's right ( remember stewarts have the authority ) is what getting us ( SCCA)  a bad name.

Tony Lee

.

 

 

 

 5/8/2009 8:15:56 PM
tony
29 posts
4th


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

Jack,  

I would suspect that In casual conversations elusive comments as to who did  what are the norm.

Given the number of incidences involving the same car and as much car damage   as happenned an investigation may have been warranted.( do you think? )

Officials are empowered to undertake ( ie you as a steward ) investigations which require statements and evidence be presented and a descion as to who where or what was at fault.,

Simply stating that when evidence is presented .................I will do something..................ensures that nothing will be done  ( sorry but thats why we have officials)

I beilieve there was a breakdown in communication between race officials when stating the 30 minute time limit .............there were other ways to proceed

This is Teds first year ( maybe second) of racing not doing what's right ( remember stewarts have the authority ) is what getting us ( SCCA)  a bad name.

Tony Lee

.

 

 

 

 5/9/2009 6:47:34 PM
Jack Marr
3 posts


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

 tony wrote

Jack,  

I would suspect that In casual conversations elusive comments as to who did  what are the norm.

Ofthen it is hard to believe everyone is talking about the same incident!  :)

 

Given the number of incidences involving the same car and as much car damage   as happenned an investigation may have been warranted.( do you think? )

Officials are empowered to undertake ( ie you as a steward ) investigations which require statements and evidence be presented and a descion as to who where or what was at fault.,

Simply stating that when evidence is presented .................I will do something..................ensures that nothing will be done  ( sorry but thats why we have officials)

I beilieve there was a breakdown in communication between race officials when stating the 30 minute time limit .............there were other ways to proceed

This is Teds first year ( maybe second) of racing not doing what's right ( remember stewarts have the authority ) is what getting us ( SCCA)  a bad name.

Tony Lee

Tony, you point up one of the bigest problems a Steward faces-how much is too much. From experience gained going back to early SS on through SRF, SRX7 and now SM it is obvious there are two conflicting schools of thought. On one hand is the philosophy that body contact is not allowed and all should be investigated, blame assigned and someone punished. On the other hand there are those who believe that the drivers will take care of things and for the Stewards to leave things alone. They say "witch hunt" a lot. So what's a Steward to do? It can be a fine line and if you step over it either way you will make someone mad.

One of the other questions is can the incident be resolved. It can be hard just to get a witness-few years back at the ARRC I had a "lynch mob" in my face calling for the head of a certain driver on a platter. When I asked them to fill out witness statements all I heard was "I don't want to be involved....". If there are few witnesses and the testimony conflicts it's hard to drop the hammer on someone.

In a protest each side presents their case, the Stewards don't do it for them. Same thing with an SOM or CS investigation, I have to have something to work with be it video or witnesses. Personally I don't mind staying late to hold a hearing if there is a chance of acomplishing something, but if it's just a "he said-she said" finger pointer it's just a waste of everone's time.  

As far as the 30 minutes goes, when in doubt file the protest! Remember it is the SOM who decide time limits, not the CS or some Steward waiting to get to the beer. If you are over time and the SOM choose not to hear it all you are out is a little time, you should get your money back.

In the TMS incident there was nothing solid presented. I talked to Ed, Joan, Ted and another fella who's name I didn't catch. It was a classic "Not my fault-he/she hit/cut me off". WIth nothing else to go on I didn't persue it Saturday evening. I did ask for the video and if I had gotten it I would have gone where it led me.

Jack

 5/10/2009 6:41:44 PM
TedG
4 posts


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

> "Not my fault-he/she hit/cut me off"

This statement does seem reasonable because Ed expressed the opinion to me that Joan was at fault for the incident between them.  Ed also told Jack on Friday that “Ted turned into him on the straightaway”.  I could see how both of these statements might be interpreted as a finger pointing contest.

I unfortunately was not informed that because there was a discrepancy, this was holding up a deeper investigation.  Why were there no further steps taken to try to resolve the discrepancy between the parties while the other drivers who witnessed the events were still at TMS?

Best,
Ted

 5/11/2009 8:38:19 AM
lance
154 posts
1st


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

Jack,

Since I  can not post on SCCA website here is what I saw with Ted's accident.

I was behind them coming around T-6, as I had been caught up in the Joan accident. Ted was on the right hand side of the track making a pass on Ed. Before the braking zone, Ed turned into Ted. ( my two cents, if Ed was having mechanical problems under braking, he should have known that from the corner before and he was not in the braking zone when he hit Ted.) I said to myself when Ted started to spin was "That's going to hurt". If you need me to write or sign something about what I saw just let me know. This was not a racing incident.

 5/11/2009 11:48:26 AM
Jack Marr
3 posts


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

Lance, please email me - readthegcr -at- hotmail.com.

I would appreciate it if Ted and SRX757 would too.

Jack

 

 6/1/2009 11:46:06 AM
Rob Lay
250 posts
1st


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)
Any updates or are we in the phase where SCCA takes so much time that everyone forgets what happened, witnesses can’t be located, and the guilty walk free?
 6/2/2009 5:43:56 PM
mbuskuhl
251 posts
1st


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

I talked to Ted the other day and here's the summary from what I recall...

Peters changed stories 3 times, ended up with blaming a broken axle as the cause (begs the question how he continued to race for so long afterwards)
The person with video didn't/won't turn it over (???)
One hit driver (name withheld) didn't want to file a protest for driver review (politics ???)
Request for driver review has been filed locally, unlikely anything will happen as it appears decisions were made a long time ago at the track
Appeal to Topeka for review can be made after local decision is made if unsatisfactory (would be interesting to see it end up in Fastrack)

 6/2/2009 10:14:14 PM
IPRESS
39 posts
3rd


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

I wanted to see the "FILM at ELEVEN"! Why no diclosure on the video? There are a million crazy moves on video all over you tube. This story is interesting, but moving pictures would make it a best seller!

 6/3/2009 10:40:16 AM
Rob Lay
250 posts
1st


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

 IPRESS wrote

I wanted to see the "FILM at ELEVEN"! Why no diclosure on the video? There are a million crazy moves on video all over you tube. This story is interesting, but moving pictures would make it a best seller!

LOL - It's a political suspense thriller Mac... we have had the politics, now in suspense, and waiting for the thrilling end. My money is on no resolution so that dozens of sequels can be made with innocents dying off in each by the evil empire.   <just kidding Jack>
 6/3/2009 11:51:04 PM
IPRESS
39 posts
3rd


Re: SCCA TMS weekend
 (United States)

So this video must be racings answer to the "Zapruder" JFK film!

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